is confirming bank always nominated bank

[nesarul]

Dear all,
Is confirming bank is always nominated bank?
regards
nesar

[shahriar]

Big Brother,

whats on your mind? im sure you are not looking for the the general answer here (i.e confirming bank may not be a nominated bank). this general answer is mainly supported by the term "any other nominated bank " in UCP.

anyway, i think confirming bank is always a nominated bank in the sense that beneficiary can always get payment from it. however i think the term, as defined in UCP 600, may not be always appropriate.

and i have another crazy (?!) idea. an issuing bank, a confirming bank and a nominated bank are three different entity!

by the way, has anyone any practical experience when the confirming bank is not a nominated ban

[Judith]

Ah.... we've discussed this many times on this forum already. Seems like a popular question

by the way, has anyone any practical experience when the confirming bank is not a nominated ban

Yes. In rare cases where IB is in a high risk country and the CB is in neutral country, the CB will confirm the LC but ask that documents be sent to IB because it really is covering only the country risk.

[nesarul]

Dear,
Thanks for response.
from my point of view, there must be distinction between principal obligator [issuer and confirmer] and nominated bank[without comfirmation]. the concept of availability is the sole parameter through which we can identify the nominated bank[which is not confirming bank]. on the contrary,we can easily detect the issuing bank and confirming bank through sub article 7(b) and 8(b) i.e.at the time issuance and at the time of confirm..... this matter comes first than the availability .......
.
my question, why are we moving or emphasis to availability in order to detect confirmer or issuer despite sub article 8(b) and 7(b)?
.
waiting for your comments.
.
regards
nesar

[iLC]

my question, why are we moving or emphasis to availability in order to detect confirmer or issuer despite sub article 8(b) and 7(b)?

well i believe that the try is not to identify confirming bank or issuing bank based on availability. the try is to know whether the confirming bank also undertakes the liability of nominated bank. a confirming bank basically undertake to pay the beneficiary in case of issuing bank's default. this can be achieved irrespective of whether the document is presented to the issuing bank or confirming bank or any other nominated bank. article 8 convey this message. on the other hand a nominated bank acts as an agent of the issuing bank. try to correlate the concept of acting ''on its nomination'' here. the nominated bank has the chance to take a liability or to act under its nomination only when a document is presented to it. please also consider the concept of article 16 here. a nominated bank acting on its nomination is always required to examine a presentation. but a confirming bank which is not a nominated bank does not require to examine a presentation even when document is presented to it in the first place. rather the confirming bank in this case will only pay the beneficiary followed by a wrongful dishonor of the issuing bank.

[nesarul]

Dear ILC,
i am in line your thinking. Here i furnish below one of my confusion:
Issuing bank Bank A
Confirming Bank Bank B
Nominated Bank Bank C
Credit available at Bank C, by deferred payment.
Beneficiary by pass the Bank C and present the document to Bank B,
Bank B discounted [document complying presentation]the Bill as per sub article 12(b) and forwarded the document to the issuing bank.
then think Banco santender case.
Issuing Bank deny to make payment for establishment of fraud
Confirming Bank point out that Issuing bank has to make payment under sub article 7(c)
issuing bank disagree with a logic that sub article 7(c) is talking about issuing bank's obligation to effect payment to the nominated bank and beneficiary only.since credit is not available with a Bank B, thats why Bank B is not at all a nominated bank.
.
what is your view in this case.
regards
nesar

[narisa]

dear all !
in Nesarul case,bene must in no way to sending dox to cb.As lc available with bank c so dox must be present to bank c as per art 6d ii (the place of bank which credit available is the place for presentation)
and is the bank which nominated to make payment.
rgds.